The Renegade
Back and Forth: Mark Schroeder
Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:00:00
Mark Schroeder has only been in the Assembly for five years, but it was this fall when he started to really cause a stir. First, he made news by calling Senate Majority Leader Pedro Espada “a thug” and demanded that he step down. Later, he became the sole Democrat to sign on to Minority Leader Brian Kolb’s bill calling for a constitutional convention. Then he came out publicly in support of Andrew Cuomo running as the Democrat for governor instead of David Paterson.
Between soundbites, Schroeder took some time to explain the origins of his independent streak, why he made his decision on the governor’s race, and tea parties.
What follows is an edited tran scri pt.
The Capitol: Being the sole Democrat to cosponsor Brian Kolb’s constitutional convention legislation, do you feel like you’re sort of the Olympia Snowe of the Assembly Democrats?
Mark Schroeder: [Laughs] Well, first of all, let me answer that question this way. When I first got the phone call from Michael Gormley from the Associated Press regarding me attaching my name on the Kolb bill, I said that I’m on four bills having to do with the constitutional convention, all authored by Democrats, and the press has never called me on that. He started laughing. You know, my constituents don’t feel that there’s anything wrong with doing things that work and are bipartisan, but apparently, in this business, god forbid if you do something with the other party—and I think that’s fundamentally wrong. The Kolb bill is just another bill that suggests that this state is beyond reform. This state is beyond tinkering at the edges. We need to do things in a very comprehensive way. One way to do it is through a constitutional convention. If you read the Kolb bill, you have “no politicians need apply” in that bill regarding electors. It is exactly how the electorate is feeling right now.
TC: So why are your colleagues so reluctant to get on Kolb’s bill?
MS: When I first came to the Assembly five years ago, I was the only Democrat that did not vote for the speaker. When I went to see him the day before, I told him I wasn’t going to vote for him and it’s because I wanted a guarantee. I wanted a guarantee that we were going to have an on-time budget five years ago. … I don’t belong to the club. I don’t take my orders from anybody, and so that is really the area you need to think about in terms of why other Democrats have not done it. Just think that thing through in terms of who belongs to the club and who doesn’t.
TC: You’ve called for the creation of an independent redistricting panel. How do you build support for something like that?
MS: You don’t. The only way you do it is by having the constituents and having the media point these things out. That’s why I’m glad I’m talking to you. It’s worked in Iowa since 1980; it’s an independent group, not politicians. It’s the complete opposite of how it’s done in New York and so, therefore, will it go anywhere in the Assembly? Absolutely not. Will anyone sign on to it? Absolutely not.
TC: You recently called Pedro Espada a “thug” and said that he should step down. What was the impetus behind that? Were you just caught at a moment when your anger got the best of you?
MS: Very, very good question and you’re the only one who’s actually asked the question that way—because there was something that caused me to do that, and no one really asked. They’re more interested in the “thug” part. Let me tell you what happened. The New York State Senate has a regional office in Buffalo and one of its staffers went into one of my towns… I thought, geez, it would be nice to know. I’m the only elected Democrat in this town and I’m the only elected state person in this town, so it would have been nice if they gave me a heads-up. So I call the staff person and ask to speak to his boss, and the boss’s name is Mike Darby. We didn’t have a very nice conversation… it wasn’t nice at all. [Espada]’s just going to do what he wants to do and I think he’s using taxpayer money to send people out to campaign, and that’s what they’re doing. I said to him, “Give me a heads-up, I’d like to know what’s happening.” He didn’t think that was good, so that was in the back of my mind. I know that these staff people are taking their orders from Pedro Espada or John Sampson or Malcolm Smith or whoever the leader of the day is. That’s what’s happening, and I took offense to that, and I tried to have a conversation and do something about it but it didn’t go anywhere.
You know, four weeks ago or so, Gormley [from the Associated Press] asked me about the constitutional convention and, you know, I said that Pedro Espada is a “thug” and I believe that he should step down. Let me be clear on what I mean by that. I am requesting and I am asking still that Pedro Espada step down from the leadership position of majority leader. I am not asking him to step down from a state senator. I have no standing in that. The people of the East Bronx duly elected him, and if he wants to be their senator for the next 20 years, that’s their business and not mine, but I do not want him running the Buffalo regional office and going into Orchard Park with his operatives. I think that’s disrespectful and I wish that he would just get out of the way.
TC: Considering Espada’s associations with Tom Golisano, Responsible New York and Steve Pigeon, do you feel like he’s gaining too much influence in Western New York?
MS: I’ve been a New York State Assemblyman for five years and an Erie County legislator for three years. I was in the private sector for 20 years, so I have a respect and admiration for Tom Golisano. Two years ago, I also belonged to what is called the Italian-American Legislators in Albany. I nominated Tom Golisano to be the “Citizen of the Year” from the Italian-Americans, and I’m the one who initiated it. I’ve only had two Democratic primaries in the past two years and both were induced by Steve Pigeon. The reason why I know I’m right for this business is that I do not take things personally.
TC: Do you support Gov. Paterson running for re-election or do you think he should step aside in favor of Andrew Cuomo, like President Obama has requested?
MS: I thought the president’s behavior was inexcusable. It was misguided. It was wrong. I hope he has learned lessons from it. You do not come into the governor’s state and embarrass the governor in his own state. That was misguided and it was disrespectful and he should not have done that. When you’re president of the United States, you can get a message in many different ways to the governor, and you don’t do it that way. That was inappropriate. Having said all that, the governor, in my view, aside from the Gillibrand appointment… I’ve been disappointed. … At some point in time you have to lead and take charge of the government, and in June, I was still disappointed. I hoped that over the summer he would have internalized and got his staff right. There were lots of different people and all that, but at some point in time you have to be comfortable with who you have around you and have a public relations campaign to let people know you’re in charge and say what you’re doing. He never did it. It hasn’t happened and, therefore, I will not be supporting Gov. Paterson. I like him… I like him very much. He’s a tremendous leader and he’s done great work and has been a good public servant for the last 30 years, but we need leadership. Enter Andrew Cuomo. ... Why Cuomo? Andrew Cuomo identifies a problem, he articulates it better than most, and then he can close the door on it better than anybody, and most of that has to do with legislation. He understands how to work. Go back to the sexual predator legislation, the student loan scandal, and the dissolution and consolidation. He is able to get it done and he can get legislation done nationally with Congress. He is and will be a very effective leader if he has an opportunity to be our next governor.
TC: Is all your stirring of the pot an effort to raise your profile in the state, to get your name out there?
MS: This sounds trite, but my concern really is only to the people that I serve in the seminal neighborhoods in the city of Buffalo, Lackawanna, Orchard Park and Seneca. Those people are fed up. I know because I’m out there every single day. They understand what I’m doing and they agree with me, and that’s my only motivation and that’s that.
TC: In July, you spoke before a Tea Party in Buffalo. How was the reception there?
MS: Well, first of all, I don’t go anywhere I’m not invited. I was invited. There were about 400 people there and I was a little nervous because I know and understand that they really despise politicians. I felt comfortable, though, because of the message that I gave. I felt comfortable and did my thing. … I know I feel similar to many of them. Also, I understand who the Tea Party people are… Some are very much involved in the issues and some just go. I walked in with a couple of senior citizens from my district and just wanted to be somewhere where they could listen to the issues. At the end, I had my brother-in-law go with me, and I thought in the back of my mind that it probably wasn’t bad to have a bodyguard with me on this particular day.
Between soundbites, Schroeder took some time to explain the origins of his independent streak, why he made his decision on the governor’s race, and tea parties.
What follows is an edited tran scri pt.
The Capitol: Being the sole Democrat to cosponsor Brian Kolb’s constitutional convention legislation, do you feel like you’re sort of the Olympia Snowe of the Assembly Democrats?
Mark Schroeder: [Laughs] Well, first of all, let me answer that question this way. When I first got the phone call from Michael Gormley from the Associated Press regarding me attaching my name on the Kolb bill, I said that I’m on four bills having to do with the constitutional convention, all authored by Democrats, and the press has never called me on that. He started laughing. You know, my constituents don’t feel that there’s anything wrong with doing things that work and are bipartisan, but apparently, in this business, god forbid if you do something with the other party—and I think that’s fundamentally wrong. The Kolb bill is just another bill that suggests that this state is beyond reform. This state is beyond tinkering at the edges. We need to do things in a very comprehensive way. One way to do it is through a constitutional convention. If you read the Kolb bill, you have “no politicians need apply” in that bill regarding electors. It is exactly how the electorate is feeling right now.
TC: So why are your colleagues so reluctant to get on Kolb’s bill?MS: When I first came to the Assembly five years ago, I was the only Democrat that did not vote for the speaker. When I went to see him the day before, I told him I wasn’t going to vote for him and it’s because I wanted a guarantee. I wanted a guarantee that we were going to have an on-time budget five years ago. … I don’t belong to the club. I don’t take my orders from anybody, and so that is really the area you need to think about in terms of why other Democrats have not done it. Just think that thing through in terms of who belongs to the club and who doesn’t.
TC: You’ve called for the creation of an independent redistricting panel. How do you build support for something like that?
MS: You don’t. The only way you do it is by having the constituents and having the media point these things out. That’s why I’m glad I’m talking to you. It’s worked in Iowa since 1980; it’s an independent group, not politicians. It’s the complete opposite of how it’s done in New York and so, therefore, will it go anywhere in the Assembly? Absolutely not. Will anyone sign on to it? Absolutely not.
TC: You recently called Pedro Espada a “thug” and said that he should step down. What was the impetus behind that? Were you just caught at a moment when your anger got the best of you?
MS: Very, very good question and you’re the only one who’s actually asked the question that way—because there was something that caused me to do that, and no one really asked. They’re more interested in the “thug” part. Let me tell you what happened. The New York State Senate has a regional office in Buffalo and one of its staffers went into one of my towns… I thought, geez, it would be nice to know. I’m the only elected Democrat in this town and I’m the only elected state person in this town, so it would have been nice if they gave me a heads-up. So I call the staff person and ask to speak to his boss, and the boss’s name is Mike Darby. We didn’t have a very nice conversation… it wasn’t nice at all. [Espada]’s just going to do what he wants to do and I think he’s using taxpayer money to send people out to campaign, and that’s what they’re doing. I said to him, “Give me a heads-up, I’d like to know what’s happening.” He didn’t think that was good, so that was in the back of my mind. I know that these staff people are taking their orders from Pedro Espada or John Sampson or Malcolm Smith or whoever the leader of the day is. That’s what’s happening, and I took offense to that, and I tried to have a conversation and do something about it but it didn’t go anywhere.
You know, four weeks ago or so, Gormley [from the Associated Press] asked me about the constitutional convention and, you know, I said that Pedro Espada is a “thug” and I believe that he should step down. Let me be clear on what I mean by that. I am requesting and I am asking still that Pedro Espada step down from the leadership position of majority leader. I am not asking him to step down from a state senator. I have no standing in that. The people of the East Bronx duly elected him, and if he wants to be their senator for the next 20 years, that’s their business and not mine, but I do not want him running the Buffalo regional office and going into Orchard Park with his operatives. I think that’s disrespectful and I wish that he would just get out of the way.
TC: Considering Espada’s associations with Tom Golisano, Responsible New York and Steve Pigeon, do you feel like he’s gaining too much influence in Western New York?
MS: I’ve been a New York State Assemblyman for five years and an Erie County legislator for three years. I was in the private sector for 20 years, so I have a respect and admiration for Tom Golisano. Two years ago, I also belonged to what is called the Italian-American Legislators in Albany. I nominated Tom Golisano to be the “Citizen of the Year” from the Italian-Americans, and I’m the one who initiated it. I’ve only had two Democratic primaries in the past two years and both were induced by Steve Pigeon. The reason why I know I’m right for this business is that I do not take things personally.
TC: Do you support Gov. Paterson running for re-election or do you think he should step aside in favor of Andrew Cuomo, like President Obama has requested?
MS: I thought the president’s behavior was inexcusable. It was misguided. It was wrong. I hope he has learned lessons from it. You do not come into the governor’s state and embarrass the governor in his own state. That was misguided and it was disrespectful and he should not have done that. When you’re president of the United States, you can get a message in many different ways to the governor, and you don’t do it that way. That was inappropriate. Having said all that, the governor, in my view, aside from the Gillibrand appointment… I’ve been disappointed. … At some point in time you have to lead and take charge of the government, and in June, I was still disappointed. I hoped that over the summer he would have internalized and got his staff right. There were lots of different people and all that, but at some point in time you have to be comfortable with who you have around you and have a public relations campaign to let people know you’re in charge and say what you’re doing. He never did it. It hasn’t happened and, therefore, I will not be supporting Gov. Paterson. I like him… I like him very much. He’s a tremendous leader and he’s done great work and has been a good public servant for the last 30 years, but we need leadership. Enter Andrew Cuomo. ... Why Cuomo? Andrew Cuomo identifies a problem, he articulates it better than most, and then he can close the door on it better than anybody, and most of that has to do with legislation. He understands how to work. Go back to the sexual predator legislation, the student loan scandal, and the dissolution and consolidation. He is able to get it done and he can get legislation done nationally with Congress. He is and will be a very effective leader if he has an opportunity to be our next governor.
TC: Is all your stirring of the pot an effort to raise your profile in the state, to get your name out there?
MS: This sounds trite, but my concern really is only to the people that I serve in the seminal neighborhoods in the city of Buffalo, Lackawanna, Orchard Park and Seneca. Those people are fed up. I know because I’m out there every single day. They understand what I’m doing and they agree with me, and that’s my only motivation and that’s that.
TC: In July, you spoke before a Tea Party in Buffalo. How was the reception there?
MS: Well, first of all, I don’t go anywhere I’m not invited. I was invited. There were about 400 people there and I was a little nervous because I know and understand that they really despise politicians. I felt comfortable, though, because of the message that I gave. I felt comfortable and did my thing. … I know I feel similar to many of them. Also, I understand who the Tea Party people are… Some are very much involved in the issues and some just go. I walked in with a couple of senior citizens from my district and just wanted to be somewhere where they could listen to the issues. At the end, I had my brother-in-law go with me, and I thought in the back of my mind that it probably wasn’t bad to have a bodyguard with me on this particular day.
